Tuesday, May 31, 2005
Mental Masturbation and the "What If?" Game
So I got to thinking about the state of our country, trying to figure out when and where things went so terribly wrong. I started to think about the 2000 election debacle and how Al Gore would have handled the country in crisis had things gone down differently in Florida.
So, play along with me here for a second. I'd be really interested in your thoughts on this matter.
Say you are Osama Bin Laden. You hate the United States for a myriad of reasons mostly relating to her foreign policy in the middle east. You hate the United States so much that you declare war on her. You bomb a few buildings, you blow up the side of a ship, you make a nuisance of yourself but the United States pretty much lets you slide. You are hoping for Jihad, but you get no more action than a horse swatting at a fly with it's tail.
So, you come up with the Mother of All Plans to get the United States to take you seriously. You'll fly some planes into their buildings. That will get their attention! But the question is where and when?
The United States has a presidential election coming up, you decide to wait and see what sort of government is installed. You wait to see what kind of administration the American people pick to lead them.
Then something happens, the neo-cons create their Project for a New American Century website. Now these are some extremely hardcore individuals and a chill runs up your spine as you read about their intent to "Rally support for American global leadership" and their desire to promote a foreign policy which would focus on "preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity and our principles." (Italics mine.)
You think to yourself, "Osama, this is it. These are the people who will finally push the Islamic world over the brink into complete westernization. They aren't in charge, but boy they would be dangerous to your cause if they were. These guys are some seriously crazy bozos."
So, the United States has her election in late 2000 and the results are a bit confusing. You wait, you wonder and you watch. If the Al Gore guy wins, you will keep your Mother of All Plans on the back burner and wait to see what he does. However, the Bush guy has already chosen one of the Crazy Bozos as a Vice Presidential running mate, so if he wins...all bets are off. You will attack before they get a chance to attack you and your Islamic brethren in the middle east.
Katherine Harris certifies the vote. The Supreme Court discontinues the count. George W. Bush is installed as the new president.
You contact your agents in the USA, you put the wheels in motion. The Mother of All Plans will happen September 11, 2001.
Now, obviously at this point it doesn't matter in the least.
But here is my question.
Do you think the fact that the neocons had their mission statement so boldly displayed and the fact that Bush elected to fill his cabinet with neocons had any effect on Bin Laden's decision to put his plan in motion?
Would Bin Laden have made the same choice to attack our country had Gore been in office and had he filled his cabinet with more benign folk? Now, Gore was running with Joe Lieberman and the combination of Christian and Jew in the White House might also have provided just enough incentive for Bin Laden to go ahead with his plans.
Perhaps the attack was going to happen regardless of the outcome of the 2000 election but I can't help but wonder whether the Project for a New American Century and it's thinly veiled imperialistic ideas provided part of the foundation and justification for Bin Laden's ultimate plan.
So, play along with me here for a second. I'd be really interested in your thoughts on this matter.
Say you are Osama Bin Laden. You hate the United States for a myriad of reasons mostly relating to her foreign policy in the middle east. You hate the United States so much that you declare war on her. You bomb a few buildings, you blow up the side of a ship, you make a nuisance of yourself but the United States pretty much lets you slide. You are hoping for Jihad, but you get no more action than a horse swatting at a fly with it's tail.
So, you come up with the Mother of All Plans to get the United States to take you seriously. You'll fly some planes into their buildings. That will get their attention! But the question is where and when?
The United States has a presidential election coming up, you decide to wait and see what sort of government is installed. You wait to see what kind of administration the American people pick to lead them.
Then something happens, the neo-cons create their Project for a New American Century website. Now these are some extremely hardcore individuals and a chill runs up your spine as you read about their intent to "Rally support for American global leadership" and their desire to promote a foreign policy which would focus on "preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity and our principles." (Italics mine.)
You think to yourself, "Osama, this is it. These are the people who will finally push the Islamic world over the brink into complete westernization. They aren't in charge, but boy they would be dangerous to your cause if they were. These guys are some seriously crazy bozos."
So, the United States has her election in late 2000 and the results are a bit confusing. You wait, you wonder and you watch. If the Al Gore guy wins, you will keep your Mother of All Plans on the back burner and wait to see what he does. However, the Bush guy has already chosen one of the Crazy Bozos as a Vice Presidential running mate, so if he wins...all bets are off. You will attack before they get a chance to attack you and your Islamic brethren in the middle east.
Katherine Harris certifies the vote. The Supreme Court discontinues the count. George W. Bush is installed as the new president.
You contact your agents in the USA, you put the wheels in motion. The Mother of All Plans will happen September 11, 2001.
Now, obviously at this point it doesn't matter in the least.
But here is my question.
Do you think the fact that the neocons had their mission statement so boldly displayed and the fact that Bush elected to fill his cabinet with neocons had any effect on Bin Laden's decision to put his plan in motion?
Would Bin Laden have made the same choice to attack our country had Gore been in office and had he filled his cabinet with more benign folk? Now, Gore was running with Joe Lieberman and the combination of Christian and Jew in the White House might also have provided just enough incentive for Bin Laden to go ahead with his plans.
Perhaps the attack was going to happen regardless of the outcome of the 2000 election but I can't help but wonder whether the Project for a New American Century and it's thinly veiled imperialistic ideas provided part of the foundation and justification for Bin Laden's ultimate plan.
posted by GodlessMom, 6:24 AM
8 Comments:
Meegan said:
This is a really interesting question. Granted, the Bush administration certainly doesn't endear itself to the rest of the world (why should it when the US is the center of the world and God is on our side?). I suspect the attack would have happened regardless of who was in office. I can't imagine that anyone who gets the idea to fly planes into buildings is reasonable enough to think, "well, let's hold on for a bit until I see how I feel about this Gore guy." But I'm also sure that nutty groups like this Project for a New American Century only helped to fuel the fire. I'll be checking back to see what your other readers think -- interesting topic!
Posted at 8:57 AM
BarbaraFromCalifornia said:
A very interesting question, indeed.
It is difficult to tell what whether the 2000 election had any effect on Bin Laden's plans to attack the United States. I agree with meegan, that the attack would have occurred regardless.
What is most significant, to me at least, is how the Bush's were and continue to be so tight with the Saudis, including Bin Laden's own family. All of the Bushes, and some of the Cheneys have so much invested in oil companies, that is is difficult not to become completely sinister on the subject.
It is difficult to tell what whether the 2000 election had any effect on Bin Laden's plans to attack the United States. I agree with meegan, that the attack would have occurred regardless.
What is most significant, to me at least, is how the Bush's were and continue to be so tight with the Saudis, including Bin Laden's own family. All of the Bushes, and some of the Cheneys have so much invested in oil companies, that is is difficult not to become completely sinister on the subject.
Posted at 11:07 AM
dddragon said:
I second meegan's post.
If Gore had been elected, would Osama been willing to have his agents wait another four or eight years? They showed patience, but I'm not sure that they would have waited that long - how long had they been in the US already, just preparing for the attacks?
And is Lieberman "Jew enough" to have brought out an attack - or is the fact that he is Jewish enough?
I have to wonder if Osama is content with the way things have gone since Sept. 11, 2001. How did he envision the world to be afterwards? 'Cause if having the neocons pushed Osama into acting, Osama sure gave Bush and his cronies ample reason to attack right back.
If Gore had been elected, would Osama been willing to have his agents wait another four or eight years? They showed patience, but I'm not sure that they would have waited that long - how long had they been in the US already, just preparing for the attacks?
And is Lieberman "Jew enough" to have brought out an attack - or is the fact that he is Jewish enough?
I have to wonder if Osama is content with the way things have gone since Sept. 11, 2001. How did he envision the world to be afterwards? 'Cause if having the neocons pushed Osama into acting, Osama sure gave Bush and his cronies ample reason to attack right back.
Posted at 2:10 PM
TLP said:
I appreciate the question, but don't know the answer. I enjoyed reading the answers of those brave enough to try addressing it.
Posted at 4:27 PM
dAAve said:
Regardless of any feelings either way on Bush, Clinton, Nixon or Washington et al.
9/11 was gonna happen anyway. It had come to that. People seem to forget about the first WTC bombing in 1993. We did nothing about it but whine. There were other more progressive atacks throughout the 90's; in the US and around the world. We did nothing but whine some more. The planning for 9/11 began as early as 1998 or 1999. The operatives were sent to the US to establish themselves and undergo flight training in 1999 and 2000. Why not? There was a history of very few negative consequences to their deeds. They had declard war on the US in the late 80's or early 90's.
I'm just sayin' ...
9/11 was gonna happen anyway. It had come to that. People seem to forget about the first WTC bombing in 1993. We did nothing about it but whine. There were other more progressive atacks throughout the 90's; in the US and around the world. We did nothing but whine some more. The planning for 9/11 began as early as 1998 or 1999. The operatives were sent to the US to establish themselves and undergo flight training in 1999 and 2000. Why not? There was a history of very few negative consequences to their deeds. They had declard war on the US in the late 80's or early 90's.
I'm just sayin' ...
Posted at 5:02 PM
Lila said:
I tend to think 9/11 would have happened even if Gore had been elected. Gore was seen as so pro-Israel that he was no friend of the players in question either.
However, I DON'T think ANYTHING like the Iraq War would've happened if Gore were president. That's the real shame, to me.
However, I DON'T think ANYTHING like the Iraq War would've happened if Gore were president. That's the real shame, to me.
Posted at 5:13 PM
BarbaraFromCalifornia said:
I agree with aral: the Iraq war probably would not have occurred had Gore, rather than Bush been elected to office.
Posted at 5:40 PM
GodlessMom said:
I tend to agree with all of you who have commented. I don't think that Bin Laden would necessarily have postponed his attack had Florida gone the other way.
I do however feel like the Bush administration has in many ways given Bin Laden exactly what he wanted. You can't have a Jihad against an enemy that won't fight back. As Higher Powered pointed out, Bin Laden had been attacking us for some time prior to his big move on 9/11 and we had basically done nothing. Bush not only fought back but he stuck a stick in the hornets nest and created all sorts of new angry hornets.
I also agree with Aral, that even assuming 9/11 happened under Gore, there is no way we would currently be in Iraq. I think we probably would have gone after Afghanistan but definitely not Iraq...Iraq is the neocon's baby.
I do however feel like the Bush administration has in many ways given Bin Laden exactly what he wanted. You can't have a Jihad against an enemy that won't fight back. As Higher Powered pointed out, Bin Laden had been attacking us for some time prior to his big move on 9/11 and we had basically done nothing. Bush not only fought back but he stuck a stick in the hornets nest and created all sorts of new angry hornets.
I also agree with Aral, that even assuming 9/11 happened under Gore, there is no way we would currently be in Iraq. I think we probably would have gone after Afghanistan but definitely not Iraq...Iraq is the neocon's baby.
Posted at 5:49 PM