Godless Mom in the Bible Belt

Tuesday, November 29, 2005

Times they are a changin'

I've noticed some really interesting developments in the news regarding Iraq. I can't quite figure out what it all means but I think it spells good news for our soldiers on the ground and their loved-ones here at home. However, it leaves a great big, ominous question mark over the Iraqi people and their country.

Now we all know that according to the Bush administration (and that caustic, venomous Schmidt) that any talk about pulling the troops out of Iraq makes you a spineless, unpatriotic coward. They made their opinion perfectly clear when John Murtha stood before the press on November 17 and called for a plan to pull the troops out of Iraq. But the administration is also facing an election in less than a year and the majority of Americans now feel that Iraq was a mistake and are unhappy and uncertain about our presence there.

So, here are some observations.

According to Juan Cole we have already pulled our ground troops out of Najaf and Karbala and seem to be in the process of turning over various administrative buildings and such. There seems to be plans to further turn over other cities prior to the upcoming election on December 15, 2005. The troops pull back to an encampment outside the city and if all stays quiet they pick up and leave.

November 17, congressman John Murtha put forward his opinion and was consequently attacked by Cheney. (Murtha held his own though, he delivered Cheney a seriously deserved smackdown.)

Then on November 22 in an interview with Fox News, Condeleeza Rice said that we would not need to maintain our current troop levels very much longer.

Then yesterday, in the wake of strong public opposition to the war and calls for withdrawal and/or drawdown of troops by many within the senate and congress, the White House jumped on the bandwagon and said that they too have a withdrawal plan. In fact, they said that not only do they have a plan, but it happens to be almost exactly like a plan put forth by Senator Joseph Biden on November 21.


So, here is what I think is happening...

In the face of public opposition to the war, approval ratings in the toilet and an upcoming election the White House has decided to cut their losses and do what has to be done in order to save face and maintain Republican control after next November. They will continue to do exactly what they have maintained they would never do, they will cut and run. They will present it to the public in such a manner that makes it seem like this is the "course" that we have been "staying." They will say that the Iraqis have "stood up" so now we can "stand down."

Now, I don't claim to know what the best course of action would be in Iraq, although I think John Murtha would certainly know better than any of the other bozos who are playing armchair quarterback with the lives of our soldiers. It seems certain to me that once our troops are gone Iraq will fall into complete civil war. The Sunnis have been bombing the Shiites for months now and recent news has shown that Shia militia are taking their revenge on the Sunni population. I can see the definite possibility of political and social chaos perhaps ending in a repressive Shiite government closely allied to Iran and Syria.

So, what was the original goal of this war? Let's throw out the BS about WMD, I think we've beaten that dead horse enough for now. Get rid of Saddam? Yeah, he is a brutal man who tortured people and used chemical weapons against those who opposed him. However, since we've done the same things I don't think we get to bang the drum of moral indignation anymore where that is concerned. Bring democracy to Iraq? Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

The Bush Administration wanted Saddam out and they wanted a democratically elected (read "puppet") government installed. Bottom line, they wanted to free Iraq from Saddam and install a government that would allow us to exploit their oil resources.

Mission Accomplished?
posted by GodlessMom, 6:28 AM

15 Comments:

Blogger Watson Woodworth said:

Only if the Bushies think getting oil from a country in civil war is a workable option.
However, pulling out of Iraq would leave the millitary avaliable to invade Venezuela. You know they want to.
Posted at 3:57 PM  

Blogger JB said:

You need to read a bit more outside of your normal sources. Try these;

These are from Blackfive one of the most respected milbloggers on the web;
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/11/morally_bankrup.html
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/11/murtha_not_swif.html

This is from Austin Bay a respected author and soldier;
http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=704

For anyone interested in military matters worldwide (not limited to US issues) read StrategyPage;
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20051120.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20051127.aspx

While Christian Science Monitor has a viewpoint they do provide good reporting;
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s02-usmi.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1121/p01s02-usfp.html?s=widep
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1110/p02s01-usmi.html?s=widep
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1123/p01s02-woiq.html?s=widep

The third CSM story speaks to where the troops are moving to when they are replaced by Iraqi forces. All of this is to create a peace so that the Iraqi democracy can grow into a self-sufficient entity.

The last CSM story is the most recent in many stories dealing with the fact that the soldiers who are facing these terrorists are re-enlisting in ever higher numbers. The soldiers see what we are accomplishing and are pretty disappointed that the media is focusing on the bad (the old "if it bleeds it leads" mindset) and ignoring the good. There are also lots of stories that the public understands this.
Posted at 8:09 PM  

Blogger GodlessMom said:

JB, Thanks for the links, I will check them out. I am a regular reader of the CSM and respect the publication.

I try very hard to read opinions from all sides of the spectrum but at the end of the day I call it like I see it. I don't pretend to be any sort of expert but the more I look at this the more I think our leaders have set us and Iraq up for failure. I don't like the idea, I want very much for us to succeed but I don't see it happening.
Posted at 9:10 PM  

Blogger TLP said:

At this point I just don't trust anything that Bush says or does.

The whole mess is beyond pitiful.
Posted at 10:49 PM  

Blogger The Lazy Iguana said:

It is all a front. Right now, the USA is calling for officers in the old Iraq army to step in.

Lets forget for a moment that the old officers were Saddam supporters.

Troop levels will have to be maintained for some time to come. Pulling out would open the nation to a civil war - and that war would lead to either another Saddam OR an Islamic Law state. In either case, the government would not be too friendly to the west.

The talk is just around in order to maintain a republican majority for the 2006 elections. The last elections put fear into the party, as the results were NOT what they expected. A democrat won the governor race in Virginia - AFTER Bush campainged for the other guy.

Sadly, so far my track record for predicting the outcome of the war in Iraq is close to 100%. If this track record holds up, US troops will be there for a long time, and will and up stuck in the middle of a civil war.

The Iraq police / military will end up being made from the former military (Saddam supporters), and the other side will be made from the Shite Muslims who want an islamic law state.
Posted at 10:51 PM  

Blogger JB said:

Tan Lucy,
Forget about Bush. Read what the troops serving in Iraq have to say. The fact that the people actual serving there are re-enlisting in record numbers is very telling. Check out some of the links I provide above.
Posted at 1:13 PM  

Blogger JB said:

Lazy Iguana,
Yes our troops will need to be there, though probably no in as high a numbers as today, for some time to come. That shouldn't be surprising or a problem. Why don't I hear complaints that we have been in Kosovo since 1999 with no end in date?

Iraq has a history of conflicts between Sunni and Shite going back centuries. You can't expect them to change their whole social structure over night. They have all their lifes looked to their family and tribe for support and protection. They don't have any history of depending or trusting the government to do anything, which include things as simple as supply phone service or electricity much less law and order.
Posted at 1:22 PM  

Blogger GodlessMom said:

Hey JB,
It is my understanding that Murtha's entire plan was formulated after spending a great deal of time talking to not only the people in charge of the war but those who are actually fighting it. He has the respect and confidence of our military from the bottom up and his entire stance is based on information they have given him.

Yes, there are many soldiers who believe in what they are doing and who want to see it through to it's conclusion. But our soldiers are a cross section of our society as a whole, their beliefs and feelings regarding the conflict are as diverse as our population itself. For every soldier who completely believes in the cause there is a soldier who is completely disillusioned.

It is a good thing that reenlistment is up and I'd like to believe that this can be completely attributed to our soldiers believing in the cause. However, there are many reasons besides that belief which might cause someone to repeatedly sign up. Financial and familial responsability probably figure very strongly into their decisions, what's a soldier to do? It isn't like the job market here at home is all that great. And lets not forget the controversy last fall regarding the forced reenlistments.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that the truth is somewhere in the middle. I tend to put more weight toward Murtha's opinion because it seems to me that he has access to more information, the confidence of those who would REALLY know what is happening and very little to gain politically by taking the stance he has taken.
Posted at 8:43 PM  

Blogger Saur♥Kraut said:

In the face of public opposition to the war, approval ratings in the toilet and an upcoming election the White House has decided to cut their losses and do what has to be done in order to save face and maintain Republican control after next November. They will continue to do exactly what they have maintained they would never do, they will cut and run.

One can only hope, though I'm sure it will be called strategic retreat.

I don't mind going in and cleaning out wasps nests, but I don't think it's our job to stick around and teach the wasps how to build better nests for the future.
Posted at 7:47 AM  

Blogger JB said:

The problem with anecdotal data is you don't know if it is representative or not. I have read first hand messages from many many troops stating their support of contiueing the mission. I have only heard second or third hand reports that there are troops who believe we should leave now. Maybe Murtha did talk to some troops, the question is are they representative or not?

As there is no good way to know that, afterall the Army is not a democracy, I find the re-enlistment numbers as indicative of the views of the combat soldiers. While there are other factors that come into a decision to enlist or re-enlist (such as financial or family situation in war time duty and risk generally win out.

I can understand that overall enlistment numbers are falling somewhat shy of targets and accept that that is likely due to candidates deciding that based on the knowledge they have (largely from the media) they are unwilling to accept the risk no matter what financial or family issues they have. If the economy was in bad shape making the military a more viable option I would expet both enlistment and re-enlistment to be elevated. However that is not the case.

The soldiers understand the risk better than recruit candidates. So either the soldiers understand that the risks are not as high as the media makes it sound or that the understand that the gains from being there far outway the risks. It is heartening to hear so many of our young men and women tell what a life changing experience their tour(s) of duty have been and how it has given them a real sense of accomplishment. It is just too bad that the public does not understand the same thing.
Posted at 1:58 PM  

Blogger GodlessMom said:

I understand your point and although I don't agree I can see where you are coming from. The problem we face is that without being there in person we can only rely on what information we can glean from the few sources we have available. It is human nature to seek out those who share our opinions and to give more weight to information which supports our own views. Therefore you would tend to seek out the opinions of soldiers who want to stick it out where I would be more prone to look for those who share my views. I guess the hard part comes in trying to keep an open mind.

You mentioned that you have never read a first hand account of a soldier who feels that we shouldn't be in Iraq. Here are a couple of links if you are interested.

www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php

misoldierthoughts.blogspot.com/
Posted at 8:04 PM  

Blogger JB said:

Thanks for the links to other soldier's stories. While I do believe this is their viewpoint I don't find them indicative of general feelings. The first one is from an anti-war site and is specific to soldiers complaining of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (I am assuming that is what PTSD is as they never spell it out).

The second set I discount for a far different reason, one I apply to certain pro-war stories I heard also. Anybody who spends so much of their blog talking about the politics that they oppose rather than what is going on around them (and I must believe there is a LOT going on around them in Iraq and Afghanistan) has a definite ax to grind.

I find anyone who cares about their political party first, last, and above all else to be less than persuasive. I discount anything they say that's can't be backed up by other non-partisan sources.

P.S. If you want to do something to help our troops you might think about getting involved in one of these causes;

http://www.soldiersangels.org/heroes/index.php
http://www.gi-bracelet.org/

and if you haven't read it before check out this independent reporter (he used donations to his blog to fund his trip and reporting from Iraq).
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
Posted at 5:14 PM  

Blogger GodlessMom said:

Thanks for the links. I've been involved for a couple of years now with an adopt-a-soldier program very much like those you linked. The problem that I have is with boxes I send. I find that they usually only recieve about half the care packages I ship (I've no idea where the rest of the boxes are going but I hope another soldier benefits.) I've found that I can communicate with them very effectively via email but snail mail is a little hit or miss. Part of the problem being these folks move around so much!

Don't worry, I keep my politics out of it. :) (wink)
Posted at 6:12 AM  

Blogger JB said:

Apparently not all are as understanding in keeping their politics out of what is supposed to be support for those who are giving their all for our countries. I think that people who corrupt children's viewpoint to this extent are horrible people.
http://twobabesandabrain.typepad.com/two_babes_and_a_brain/2005/12/this_will_make_.html#more
Posted at 2:05 PM  

Blogger GodlessMom said:

That is absolutely horrible. There is no excuse for passing that kind of BS off onto the sponge-like mind of a child. I may not agree with the war and I have no clue what our country should do next in regards to Iraq but these soldiers are our friends, family and neighbors and they need to be treated with love and respect.

My family has a long history of military service. My father, who is a WW2 veteran, said that the one thing that kept him grounded during his service was the letters from home. In fact, my mom wrote him the entire time he was in the service. She was 14 when he left and 18 when he returned home...The rest is history. :)
Posted at 5:03 PM  

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