Godless Mom in the Bible Belt

i think thats a pretty normal sounding respose to what has happened, but "extremists" in some sense have created the most progress. where would we be without those slavery abolitionist extremists?

I guess that's what I'm so frustrated. How do you fight a group that has total disregard for life? They're willing to blow themselves up because they're indoctrinated at an early age that we are evil.

And worst; you're missing the point here. I doubt slavery abolitionist extremists threw acid in the faces of people and I doubt they blew up things.

Yep, what you said.

I agree with your point, Fred, about the violence. But, extremeists formed this country and probably many others.

The women of the '60's were called extrmenists, but look what gains they made for woemn around the world. Ths list is infinite. However, violence is NEVER the way.

john brown, one of the most famous abolitionist killed many slave owners in Kansas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)

im not defending the bombing, i myself am a pacifist. but i think condemning "extremist" attitudes is not the place to look. we dont get an accurate portrayal of what these groups want, and their indoctrination at an early age is no different than what happens here, we just have different values. theyll kill themselves for a cause, but we dont think thats appropriate.

OK so one or two extremist might have turned out to be good guys. What about the other thousands of them? What good did they do?

I am sick of the whole mess too. And I do not see it getting any better.

the point is that whether they are good or bad guys depends on what side of the fence you are on.

Your passisonate voice is admirable, and I totally understand and see where you are coming from.

Israel has been the result of suicide bombers for more than 4 years now. Iraq too is encountering these horrors, as many of our soldiers die daily, and innocent Iraquis are killed by their actions. This type of behavior is the worst of all possible kind.

worst weather ever does actually have a point here, the history of most countries, and especially in my wonderful Europe, which I love so much, has been one of revolt and conflict.
It is a true saying that `one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter`.
A lot of the freedoms we take forgranted in the UK, were brought about by resistance.
However, and it is a big however, we should have moved on from these dark times.
Violence is a bancrupt argument. Even the IRA in Ireland know now that violence will not bring about change.
Democratic discussion is the only way to solve differences, and it is the only way forward if civilisation is to progress.
The bombs in London are designed to do more than just maim, kill and terrorise. The people who set those timers...these were no suicide bombers..they plan to live to fight another day....are hoping that this will cause divisions within the UK`s multi-cultural society. They want people to view each other with suspicion, to set up barriers between communities.
They also hope that the anti-terrorist measures brought in by authorities, where ever the terrorists strike, will remove the very freedoms which we value.
If they can achieve these things, then they will have won.
We have to go about our lives as normal, valuing our freedoms and civil rights, and making sure that our multi-cultural communities are included as one whole community, with no divisions, no suspicions.
It is true that the current thought is that the terrorists in this particular instance may well have lived or worked in the UK for a while, but there will always be a minority of people in every
community who hold extreme views.
The important thing to remember is that they are a minority, and do not speak for the good community they hide within.
I`ve probably rambled on a bit here, forgive me, but we have to be careful that in dealing with acts like this, we do not lower our own values, which we hold so dear.

Well said, godless. Yeah, it's pretty tiresome and depressing stuff. I'm tired of it too.

i love this blog

Godless Mom,

Ditto. Thank you!

Worst Weather Ever,

It's not that easy. Often extremists weren't the people that caused the change. They were on the fringe of a movement that was heading that way already. Instead, these extremists often created worse problems than they started with.

You spoke of John Brown. The true history of John Brown is very different than the idealistic one that so many of us were taught.
For instance, Nathaniel Hawthorne said at the time "Nobody was ever more justly hanged."

I recommend you read "The Secret Six: John Brown and the Abolitionist Movement" by Otto Scott. It will open your eyes.

John Brown was a vicious, mentally ill man who found an outlet for his sociopathic tendencies through believing he was on a divine mission to end slavery. Of course slavery was wrong, but he chose to kill anyone that was convenient and used slavery as an excuse.

He targeted 5 families (none of whom owned any slaves but he thought they might be pro-slavery). Each time they would drag out the man of the house and slaughter him in front of his family while the women and children screamed in horror. And that was just the beginning of his atrocities.

Nice guy. Good example.

P.S. I should add that John Brown was useful to many abolitionists who were happy to give him money and look the other way. The atrocities he committed was a convenient way for them to bring slavery to the front page, but they were able to do so without being personally responsible for the things he did.

There were many intellectuals, politicians, and literati at that time whose hands were unclean due to this. They had no choice but to continue sanctioning him up through, and beyond his death.

In these days, our press is usually too good to allow anyone to do spin control on something of this magnitude. But back then, it was possible.

if John Brown did those things then he's a perfect example of someone who has an extremist ideaology who used violence to achieve his goals (and i used him as an example of someone who killed for a cause i believe we all support). had he used other means his ideas would still be extremist, but his actions would be more in line with our collective definition of appropriateness. the ideas and the actions are different, when godless writes about extremists i think she want to destroy the attitudes as well as quell the action, which i think is misguided. im certainly not trying to say that i support violence in any way.

but yeah, i love this blog too, and this dialogue.

Look at this...I leave you guys alone for a few minutes.... (grin)

I have no problem with extreme ideas. I, myself would be considered extreme by some people. However, I have a serious problem with extremists who resort to violence or who insist that it is their way or the highway.

History is full of examples of extremists who used violence to further their cause, true. But there are also examples of extremists who took the road less traveled and walked in peace.

Worst Weather Ever, Well, you missed the point slightly. He didn't have an extremist ideology. He was nuts, pure and simple. But, then many extremists ARE.

Godless Mom,

Ditto. Ghandi, for instance.